(The transcript that I got was not of great quality, so please use your judgment. I tried to make a few corrections.)
MANAGEMENT DISCUSSION SECTION
Analyst, Morgan Stanley:
Hi, we are excited to have Al Mann here today. He is the Chairman and CEO of MannKind since 2003. So first I'm going to ask him to give us a brief overview about the company for us who does not know a lot about the company and then we will open it to Q&A. Al?
Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Well, our goal at MannKind is really a diversified, fully integrated biopharmaceutical company. [indiscernible] Our lead product is a new form, a unique new type of insulin therapy that will I think have tremendous impact on the diabetes problem. In addition we have four cancer products, two of them have been in the clinic, and they all look very, very exciting and we have a number of other products in our delivery capability, in our program, mostly hormones that are better delivered in spikes or drugs for which rapid introduction into the system systemically would be advantageous.
Analyst, Morgan Stanley:
Okay. So first I want to talk about your inhaled insulin product. So in its trials hemoglobin A1C in AFREZZA cohort were kind of non inferior to rapid analog at that. And in trial 009 even that non inferiority was in question. So how can you say AFREZZA is -- can be better?
Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Well, I think you need to look at the signs, you can't really look in a prandial insulin, it's only the HbA1c, because the problem is that with current insulin the purchases is so long that it creates an excessive post prandial hyperinsulinemia that leads to hypoglycemia. So fast in glucose levels are averaged as very high levels, well above what would be safe. Over the long-term typically we see 170 to 210 milligrams a deciliter or even higher. And at those levels they mask the HbA1c -- because actually they are the major determinant of HbA1c at that level. You can't get a good A1c to get the fasting level down to somewhat in a normal and their appraisal will show superiority I believe.
Analyst, Morgan Stanley:
I see. There is also concern about the safety, so about lung function and also some cancer possibility they were accelerating cancer I guess, and how about -- what do you think about the safety of the products?
Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
Well, we've done extensive pre-clinical studies over 50 trials in over 5000 patients, some of the patients have been on our therapy for over five-years. At the end of the day we have seen absolutely no impact on lung tissue. We've seen no increase in risk of cardiovascular problems or of cancer and there have been no safety signals. The FDA has reasoned not a single safety concern related to AFREZZA. Now all that said, at the end of the day we really truly believe that AFREZZA is very safe, actually reduces the risk of short-term, short-term safety because you don't have the extent of hypoglycemia that you have with other drugs and we believe you'll be able to get fasting levels down to a point where you get better A1cs to lower long term safety concerns as well and we see no other issues evolve. We have no safety signals of any kind.
Analyst, Morgan Stanley:
Okay. Will you remind us when the PDUFA date is?
Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
PDUFA date is December 29.
Analyst, Morgan Stanley:
And do you think the FDA will approve the drug?
Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer:
I am very confident that the data is compelling and that the FDA will approve the drug. I cannot say that they do it by December 29, because the agency is understaffed and over worked and there is - they've got lot on their plate and it's a fairly complex regulatory process for AFREZZA. So whether they make it by December 29, I can't opine.
Q&A
<Q>: Okay. Is there any questions among the audience? Okay, and Al, I understand that you invested about $1 billion out of 1.5 billion, you've guided to the company as a whole. And I've never heard anything like that before, so why -- what makes you feel so confident about the company?
<A>: The first one is that I'd a lot of experience in diabetes, after all I was the founder and CEO of MiniMed for through -- its history through 2001 when we sold this company to Medtronic. But one thing I learned is I learned the deficiencies occur drugs and what that occur in insulin in particular and what you're seeing today is a global explosion of the epidemic of diabetes. There are about 300 million people in the world today and that's going to double over the next few decades. In the United States for example, the government is projecting that one out of every three young Americans is going to suffer from diabetes in his or her lifetime which is a huge market opportunity.
And today very few people reach normal glycemic control about -- only about a-third get even reasonably close to relax standards. [indiscernible] And the problem is that all of the drugs today are not adequately effective, there's a need for better therapy. In fact you might say that the rate of control to reduce glycemic variations is with insulin that's way the body does it and only because the current insulins have such serious deficiencies do you see all of these other drugs in Type 2 diabetes that are coming to market if you could only have a better -- a better insulin that didn't have all these problems, these other drugs probably wouldn't have much merit. So I see this as an enormous opportunity at Type 1 diabetes and late stage Type 2 it will be a prandial insulin, but I believe you are going to see significant use of this product in the earlier stage Type 2 as well.
<Q>: What is wrong with other insulin?
<A>: Well, the other insulins to make them stable, they are all[indiscernible] six molecules bound to a couple of zinc atoms and the body can't use the hexamer, it has to break it down into a monomer and that takes time. So that if you take a look at regular insulin it doesn't peak for two to three hours in the body and lasts for 9 to 12 hours. You digest a meal maybe more or less in three hours, you've got six to nine hours of excess of insulin and you've got to deal with that and that cause of type of glycemia to avoid hyperglycemia people are eating snacks all day long and the bodies liver is spoiling out glucose try to eat particularly going into coma. These are serious issues.
Now about 15 years ago, a couple of rapid acting analogs came to market and there you saw maybe peeking at about an hour and they last maybe 5 to 7hours, the best still too long. With AFREZZA for example, we peek in typically a little under 15 minutes and we are essentially gone in three hours the effect sort of peeks at roughly an hour and that's mimics what's the normal body needs, where body -- a healthy body processes glucose so that we believe we really provide an insulin that more nearly mimics with the normal pancreas does in the healthy person.
<Q>: There are still some skeptics about after the Exubera failure in the market and also about the acceptance of any inhaled insulin, so why do you believe AFREZZA will be successful and how successful?
<A>: Well, first you can't compare AFREZZA to Exubera. Exubera was an effort to create a product that turned out to be very inconvenient, very expensive, and had no clinical advantages that didn't present clinical benefits, our clinical results as good as what you can get today with existing injected endpoints. Is the only excuse what you didn't have to inject it? That doesn't play in this market and that's why it failed. But with our products we changed the clinical experience. We create an insulin it's the first ultrafast acting insulin that is totally different the only thing we shared is that we're insulin and that we deliver by inhalation because putting it into the arterial system have some benefits in clinical effects. It actually tends to lower insulin resistance and so that's why we do it and is the powder so we have to have a different way of delivering it in the lung is an ideal surface because it's such an enormous surface and which you can deliver such a product.
<Q>: So I'm just trying to understand and so you were saying AFREZZA is very different from Exubera, so therefore?
<A - Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer>:
Its fully different product.
<Q>: Therefore we cannot -- we just cannot compare?
<A - Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer>:
Was like comparing a Golf Cart to a luxury sedan, I mean they're not the -- both tacky somewhere but they're different.
<Q>: Okay. Do we have any questions? Okay. Can you tell us about partnerships when can we expect one partnership?
<A - Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer>:
Well, we were very close to a partnership last year in October. There was a question that affected the economics that we couldn't really answer without getting some more inputs from the FDA, since we're only a couple months from approval; it was decided to defer any further discussions. So last year we got the -- what we thought what was going to be an imminent approval. We had every signal that was going to be. But it turned out not to happen and then of course ended up with a complete response letter. But one of the interesting and important conclusions of the complete response letter is that the FDA raised not a single safety concern. And what's happened since then we have a fairly clear pathway to approval. And so that's attracted a lot of people. So we've had a lot of people talking to us on the partnership. We had frankly more than we could handle we narrowed it down or it's just the narrow down I should take to about six, who are still talking to us, and we want to let them to reduce that to maybe three or four that's probably all we can handle as we move into negotiations, so to try to compete the partnership. Now that said the companies that we had been negotiating with last year probably could complete a deal with this in a matter of few weeks the others had been gone as far, so we take several months probably. PDUFA is only 3.5 months away so which comes first I can’t tell you.
<Q>: Okay. Do you expect FDA to have panel?
<A - Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer>: No.
<Q>: You don't.
<A - Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer>: They've consistently said to us, they don't need a panel it doesn't mean they can't change their mind, but they've consistently said no panel.
<Q>: Okay. And in your mind what do investors under appreciate about MannKind?
<A - Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer>: What do they under appreciate?
<Q>: Yeah.
<A - Alfred E. Mann, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer>: This is a product addressing what is the greatest healthcare challenge today. [ph] It is a unique product that does -- that can produce superior results, we have to prove some of those yet because registration trials don't really show the product at its depth. [indiscernible] For example, when Humalog was approved, the FDA said it had no benefits clinically, but today everybody knows it does and that's because of the way registration trials are conducted. But we show better performance in so many areas, for example, we have a very, just to give you an idea what I'm doing. We have a very simple or discrete delivery system, person is just tied to meal don't even know what is doing and there it is with a little device like this, you don't really need to do complex meal titration in Type 2 diabetes is almost nothing to be titrated in Type 1, you need to have some concern there so you can -- you got to have some understanding of what you're eating but its not complex, no carb counting and all that is necessary. We show lower hyperinsulinemia and most of hyperinsulinemia comes from times when we're not even in the system and the more you take of ours it doesn't seem to increase the hypoglycemia, we think most of the hypoglycemia is coming from the other drugs that are used in the therapy we have much lower increases the postprandial glucose levels and those rises are more and more being associated with cardiovascular and mega vascular risk, we actually see a lowering of when we are not even in the system and the reason is because by delivering into the arterial system the experts are saying that the believe that we are lowering internal resistance and increasing sensitivity. If you are going to do - if you are going to use a therapy where you don't have much risk of hyperglycemia and you don't need to do many titrates and don't need to do nearly as many finger sticks and those are very difficult and even painful and people hate them and they are very expensive and you don't need to do nearly as many with this. You don't have weight gain with this, we say it is weight neutral and certainly we can say that - label will probably say less weight gain because people gain weight for other reasons than just taking insulin. And if we could get people to lower fasting glucose which is safe when you do with us but not with the other drug, with the other insulin, we think we will be able to show significantly better A1Cs and most people should be getting near the normal range of A1C. Those are some of the advantages and I don't think people understand all of that, they don't seem to understand what a lot of doctors do, and lot of patients do but we don't seem to find that in Wall Street.
<Q>: (Inaudible) companies. So do you think you have companies that are looking to get into the insulin space or could this include incumbents already in the insulin space?
<A>: I am sorry, I didn't hear that.
<Q>: Okay. I think it's on now. I just want to come back to you earlier comments on partnering. You said you have to ...
<A>: Partnering?
<Q>: [indiscernible]. I just wanted to get a sense as to - you are not going to name who these partners are. But I want to get a sense of the type of companies that are having discussion with you. Are we talking about companies that are looking to get into the insulin space or do they include discussions with companies that are essentially incumbents in the insulin space?
<A>: Well, we are not really very interested in companies who are in the insulin business. The reason of course is because why would they want to cannibalize some of their key products. I mean Novalog is the most important product for Novartis for example. So they wouldn't be interested in promoting our products. So they are not really good candidates. But Sanofi-Aventis could use a rapid acting insulin, but on the other hand we think that AFREZZA will compete effectively against Lantus in earlier stage type-II diabetes. So we have some reservations about those, but we feel that we should deal with someone who is in the diabetes market or at least in the metabolic and endocrine markets so that they have sales forces that are dealing with the physicians in the same areas as we -- in which we're interested. Yes, sir?
<Q>: How long can [inaudible] do they have the same level of excitement about the products that you have and the other question I had was what is plan B ?
<A>: [indiscernible].
<Q>: Okay. [ph] I guess a follow up to the previous question was, you know, you're not looking at incumbents, you're looking at some of the other guys but do they have the same level of excitement about a full wallet that you share, do they actually share your excitement around AFREZZA or would we see some partnering deal actually happen only after approval from FDA, and secondly if approval doesn't happen for whatever reason what's plan B here, I mean how does one think about MannKind after that?
<A>: Well, first one you see that I lived with diabetes not the disease but with treating it for, you know, couple of decades and I think I've learned a lot about what is needed and when I see the technology and the effect, the clinical effect of this drug, I get very excited. I seriously doubt many people share my enthusiasm, at least the leaders of some of the pharma companies, there is still and they like it and they are impressed, but I am pretty excited, because that's why I put in $925 million of my own money. On the other hand, to the second part of your question, I think that the data for approval is compelling. We have every indication from the FDA that they will approve it. We don't know what the -- you can never be certain about the agency, but we are very confident that we will be approved. We can't say exactly when. We don't think that there is likelihood of --failure of approval is something that is likely to be considered.
<Q>: ?
<A>: Pardon?
<Q>: ?
<A>: What do I think of the market? [ph] Well, we've done a number of or I shouldn't say done, we've had a number of market surveys done, the most significant among them was done last year. It was done by a company called Biobid which was recommended to by one of our partner candidates. And they did a survey of 611 physicians, 203 in the United States and the other 408 in the five major countries of Europe and a major market I should say. And they -- each physician was asked to bring in randomly selected records from his patients, his/her patients that to and forward records that half in type 1 and half in type 2. They came to a meeting with a reviewer. The reviewer and the doctor went through the records and the doctor would determine which patients he would recommend for this product. The number turned out to be 25% in the U.S. for both type 1 and type 2 in Europe, it was a little lower in Germany and it was higher in France, same in Italy, but the numbers were somewhere than excess of 25% of all of the patients that they were treating would have been recommended for this product. Now, when you are looking at the numbers of people involved 25% you can discount that by an enormous amount and here still see we have a multi billion dollar opportunity and I think the number will grow from there.
<Q>: Okay. We are running out of time, so I am going to ask you the final question. Can you just tell us briefly about your cancer program and do you plan to have additional clinical studies?
<A>: We have four cancer products in the queue. Three of them are vaccines, two of them been in the clinic and they are only phase I trials, but the efficacy was really quite surprising. We think they are very promising candidates. There is a lot of interest today in cancer vaccines given what has happened with Dendreon, but we have off the shelf vaccines that are -- they are classified by cell type, but -- so there are several. You can't just use it willy-nilly on any patient, but for different groups of patients the vaccines we have now are really directed to HER2 patients which comprise roughly 50% of Caucasians and different percentages of other heritage, but the fourth product is a multiple myeloma product. It has some other applications as well. And the Multiple Myeloma Society was so impressed with it that they even gave a profit company a $1 million to help to develop that product. So those are coming along, but there is years away. On the delivery front, as I said earlier, by delivering a products rapidly into the arterial system and what would really be sort of spikes for our hormone, you can get much more physiologic effects than you get with other delivery technologies. And there are other drugs that for example, suppose one of the two migraine drugs where it may take an hour to get into the blood if you inject it or something or if you take a pill and by taking a bio-technique, it might be the only matter of limit before you get an affect. So, there are a variety of things. Those are still years away. The only product that we have is really close some market is really AFREZZA and a couple of our cancer vaccines could make it to market in a few years, maybe three years and so, but that's about the size of our pipeline. Analyst, Morgan Stanley: Okay. Well, thank you very much for speaking with us. Company Representative: Thank you.